Season 4 Episode 15: Scaling and Systems that Don’t Suck with Serial Entrepreneur Mike Decker

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How do you scale your business and succeed from it?

Learn from serial entrepreneur Mike Decker.

Transcript:

Hey guys, Megan here. Thank you so much for joining me today. I have a just incredibly motivating person who you’re going to hear from today that makes me want to hang up and go do some work because he’s doing so much more work than I am. But he’s so impressive. I am here with Mike Decker. Mike Decker is a principle is principle based, marketer turned serial entrepreneur that has been featured on the Associated Press, MarketWatch, MSNBC, CBS, and now starts looking at business.

So, Mike, thank you so much for joining me today and thanks Megan for having me.

But how do you get started in this crazy world? So your background is finance and that is a terrifying world to me. So talk me through. How did you get how did you get started in finance?

So I studied I put quotations around, studied sales and marketing in college, and I took a financial gig up in Washington that led to me creating a bunch of algorithms to fuel their their financial planning software that then they said, hey, can you just not go back to school? Can you stick around and and help us grow the company? And I said, sure. So I worked my way up kind of the firm got a lot of great experience and then one thing led to the other.

I ended up staying in the industry for now. It’s been about a decade or so. But before that I took the hardest communication based jobs I possibly could find, which I thought were phone sales and door to door sales. And most people say, oh, don’t don’t say you were door to door salesmen. And I’m thinking, why not? When you’re in college, you’re going to take crappy jobs. You might as well get the hardest ones to learn your craft.

And I learned how to effectively communicate with clarity. And clarity is the best form of communication, not benefits or ambiguity or manipulation. This is what I’m offering. Is that something you want? It’s OK if you don’t want it. And I’ve had tremendous success because I learned how to speak clearly. Can we talk about what your door to door job was, because mine in college, I sold Kirby Vacuum Cleaners door to door and I sold one. They were like multiple hundred dollar things, but it mostly just ended up cleaning people’s houses all day for free.

Yeah, I went to California, sold pest control.

Now it’s kind of a utility, but it was really simple.

I mean, I was hey, I’m the local guy. I’ve got my people here in the area. If you’re going to be around, I can do it dirt cheap. And it was always a price point because they’re all kind of the same thing they used to say, you know, the pyrethroids and pyrethroids, you throw all that jargon in there to make yourself sound fancy. It’s all the same stuff. But, you know, if you could save 20 bucks a month, why not?

Right. And the same service and I can take and then you point out the like, oh, there’s this issue. There’s that issue. And but there was Kasur. Interesting experience I had with this. Yeah.

So there’s a principle of of of change as humans. And that suggests that unless the pain of change becomes less than the pain of continuing on, people don’t change. I’ll never forget I walked. There’s two examples. I walked into someone’s house and they had an infestation in their kitchen like ants everywhere. I said, Yeah, you know, we can be here later today. Take care of this. It’s going to cost you a hundred bucks. How do you want to proceed?

And they said, oh, no one’s going to Home Depot and get home defense for 30 bucks. I said, well, here’s the issues for that. Do you want to do that? I said, yeah, we’re just going to do that. And then I thought, why did you invite me into your home if you’re just going to do this anyway? And then another home where I’m sitting there, I see three black widows on her porch while she’s sitting there as to how I can take care of this for you.

And she says, not good. Either it’s either it’s money or it’s not really a pain point to them, but we think, oh, I’m going to solve this issue based on my eyes, right. You don’t sell based on your experiences. You don’t market based on your experiences. It’s all about them and their experiences and how they measure pain. And we buy things based off pain medication. For the most part, not benefits are making your life better.

Why do so many people not do what they want? Because it’s more painful to do that path than it is just to enjoy the status quo.

I learned that from Tony Robbins, actually. Is that where you learned to know this kind of self experience and trying to put words to what I’m noticing?

But it’s so it’s so true that, you know, you can and it’s for anything for weight loss, for business, for learning a skill. Just it doesn’t. We’ll start working until you’re willing to say, like, the status quo is not working for me anymore, and if I don’t change, then nothing will.

Yeah, Twitter is all over inspiring words on how to start your business. And yet no one does anything because it’s still more painful. It’s too risky. And so what if everyone became their own serial entrepreneur? It’ll never happen because it’s too painful and through the mind’s eye for a lot of people.

Well, let’s talk about how you overcame that fear. So you have successfully launched three companies to date.

Mm hmm. Tell me about that process. Like, what does that how does that start from, like, the shiny object, this kind of noodling around in your brain to manifesting? How does that work for you?

Oh, gosh, there’s probably 10 business ideas. I get a day and I write them down so they don’t clog my my mindset. But it’s it’s about creating a structure first. So if your business can’t scale, then it’s a job. And you don’t want to create a job because over and over, I see entrepreneurs becoming slaves to their own businesses and it’s just dreadful, I think if you can relate to that a little bit through your experience, for sure.

Absolutely.

But the so the first thing is to build a process. And the second you can make a decision about your process, then you can make the adjustments as things go on. No business is going to come out of the gate perfected. It just doesn’t happen. Businesses that have been in business for hundreds of years are still adjusting how they do things with the times. So it’s better to create a structure because that structure is repeatable and then you can make the adjustments kind of like having a constant in any sort of math equation.

You have to have a constant to be able to figure out what’s working, what’s not working. If you have too many variables, then you’re winging it and winging it as a system that is of chaos. And so I see a lot of people as they the fear of, well, let’s do this, let’s do that. They keep throwing out all these ideas, but nothing ever solidifies as a baseline. And so nothing can ever really happen. And if you do start, then it’s a free for all and you’re wasting a ton of time based on just aimless activities, busyness and not productivity.

So, I mean, the first thing is, if you have a concept, how do you get that concept was like whether it’s a service or product in a systematized and scalable way to people. If you don’t have that, then. It’s going to be really rough at the beginning, and then the second part, too, is seen of your ideas, even viable. So I love two things. One is, if you pay 10 people and five say, yeah, I like this and five say no, you’re going to waste a lot of time and money, that’s usually a good thing.

Polarizing responses is a good indicator. Some people say, oh, if everyone says it’s a bad idea, that means you’re on to something that is not true.

I’ve heard some terrible business ideas, and if everyone says it’s great, I would be wary of that, because if you don’t have any resistance, then you may be trying to appeal towards everyone, which means you’re going to market to no one. Let’s talk more about the. The idea of scaling or building something, the scale, because I think that some people will take that and go way too far with it, where they’ll start with, like enterprise solutions and they don’t have the infrastructure to build that.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. So let’s let’s talk about a system is not every single detail, every single workflow done. So I coach a lot of financial advisors and I say, what’s your sales process? Oh, it’s three meetings. OK, what happens in those meetings when I get to know them and then I decide I’ll pick them a product or something like that, and we just kind of see where it goes. OK, so you have three meetings of whatever happens.

I get that right. Yes. When would you not take a client? Oh, I take on pretty much any client. I mean, it’s hard to get clients. OK, so you have no boundary. I mean, can you see how that starts to fall apart where it’s not really a repeatable process? It’s them trying to figure it out as they go along. And so what I teach them is, who’s your client? Who’s not? How do you determine that?

Right up front, the top salespeople and the top marketers are the ones that express their boundaries, who’s a fit, who’s not a fit right up front.

I like that. And I like the idea of saying no and learning how to say no early. I think it becomes one of the hardest parts of getting started because you want everybody’s money, right? You want to make sure that you can pay your bills and you can do all those things, but. To have the ability to say no ends up being so much more fiscally responsible, you know what I mean?

Essentially, there is power and control between any relationship. And if you try to assume power and control, you’re perceived as a dictator and the people you’re trying to sell to you are going to resist that. Whether they realize it or not, it will be subcortical. They’re going to resist you and they’re going to leave. If you give them power and control, then you have no boundaries. And people don’t respect people that have no boundaries. And the questions won’t be I mean, can imagine a doctor where you’re in charge of the conversation and they never get what they need to out, out.

Like, it’s just not going to happen. You know, they say now we’re going to take your your bloodwork. Now we’re going to do this test. Now we’re going to go here. You’ve got a question. Hold on one second. We need to take care of this. Then I’ll answer your question right there. They’re holding up those boundaries because they know what needs to get done. And you good sales process. If there’s a question, they’re going to say they’re going to say thank you for that.

We can address that in about five minutes. We the first thing to get through this first before we can address that, are you OK with that? Only when you have the clients or the prospect having the power and you maintain the control through questions, can you have an effective sales process? And then you’re holding those boundaries of, say, not yet. We have to cover these things first. I like that and I like that it can be spread out not just to finances, but also to like any part of your business where you’re just saying like.

As an entrepreneur, you have 57000 priorities, but you cannot get to fifty seven thousand priorities at successfully, so you have to say like, OK, I understand that I need marketing and I need advertising and I need blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But right now I need a customer. And let me figure out the customer first before I start working on all these other priorities. Is that how you see people developing systems or do you recommend that people do it another way?

So I. I like the mentality and this is really successful for people who do things like teachable courses is do a presell discount rate to see if there’s some value. If there is, you get that money and you reinvest it. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen on teachable chat boards where they say they they put together just the first segment. It’s like a four week course and they put together just the first couple of videos. They do a pre sale half off.

And if they get ten people to buy it, then every week they’re building. The next week they’re just one week ahead of them and that’s it. So like when I launched my coaching business about a year ago, actually, and I just I wanted to do coaching. I just said I want to do as kind of a hobby than anything, but I’m going to do it for free. So I created an outline I had and it’s just marketable something, some sort of structure.

I said, look, if you want me to coach you, we’re going to talk about authenticity, awareness and advocacy within your business. And then I broke those down. What those mean, I define them. I said that you want or not. Here’s what the results look like and I’ll never forget it. My big pitch was if you go to my coach and you can run your practice in two and a half hours, a week or less.

And when my favorite client calamity. Because you’re joking. I mean, he was willing to pay the money I was recommended. So he did it. I said, now most people go through my program and don’t get those results because they don’t do what I say. Why are you going to do what I say, he says, well, I’ve got nothing to lose. I mean, I’m cash flowing like I’m fine, but I’d like to get to that point because everyone’s depending on business.

OK, I set the boundaries and we went through the process usually takes about a year to go through. He did it in six months and he calls me on the golf course now every now and then. Just says, yeah, I haven’t worked in three days and I’m still making great money. The business is thriving because you learned how to how to set those boundaries, how to delegate, how to build structures and systems, how to put the accountability on someone and not have to follow up with them over and over again and even goes in this section.

They want to like the natural science behind communication. But I just created a general structure. And then every time the first client got to the next section, I made all of those materials for that section. So I just was building it as people progressed. I didn’t build the whole thing out front. That would be a waste of time because what if it wasn’t viable? I now wasted a ton of time trying to do it. Well, let’s talk about how you envisioned the results before you had the product built.

So you’re you’re making a statement that you only work two and a half hours a week. What was in your head that said this is what I can teach? And I know that even though I don’t have the the structure set up, I know that this is the result that I want to work towards with my clients.

Yeah.

And so when I had done it previously at my own firm, my co-founder, I should say, but on top of that it was how what does that result be defined us and I defined it as you have half an hour segment for your marketing department, for them to report back to you what’s going on. You can make decisions a half an hour for your your operations department for them to report back to decisions. And I just segmented what the two and a half hours would have been like.

And I said, now we’re going to train your staff how to do what they need to do and give them the accountability report back to you. So you’re not doing their job for them. So I define what the result was. And then I, I put my billable hours of what it would cost and I said, OK, so if I if I’m going to do this, I need to have X amount of clients just pay my bills and then anything on top of that is just fun working at that point.

And so there has to be a monetary viability to what you’re going to do, doing a business that’s you’re going to work long hours and not make much money is really, really tough unless you use overseas help or scalable manufacturing, which has more upfront costs than first time entrepreneurs may want to enter. So let’s talk people who are the first time entrepreneurs that are. He didn’t fall into the business, but they started something and ended up being successful. Now they’re thinking about going full time and they have to figure out the way to systematize this into a scalable business.

Do you have any tips for this?

Yeah, I think with the end in mind, so. If you’re going to be the CEO, what does that mean? What’s the responsibility of the CEO then list everything else that has to be done after that? Are you still there? OK, sorry, just good timing on the Internet there, but the start with the end in mind of what you want the results to be and then create benchmarks moving backwards from that standpoint, if you think with the end in mind, then you can benchmark how you’re going to get there.

And so it’s things like, OK, for the business to run. The biggest burden I have is marketing, usually is marketing. How can I systematize and outsource my marketing so someone else is doing it. And the best measurement is what is your billable hour to yourself? So for first new entrepreneurs, you could start with one hundred dollars an hour if it costs more than one hundred dollars an hour to fill that job, outsource it, or if it costs less than hundred dollars an hour, outsource it.

It cost more than a hundred dollars an hour, maybe keep it a little bit longer until your billable hour becomes two hundred dollars an hour to yourself. Then you outsource or you’re just comparing time and price value at that point. And so and you can you can get people, freelancers working five hours a week for you that take care of all that for a fraction of the cost. And now you freed up five hours that are not to be wasted with busy work.

You’re going to deliberately fill those with other parts of your day or the next benchmark. So I for my advisory, my marketing agency that I run, the first thing I did was I found a digital marketer who can do Facebook ads and and secondary some Google ads. That was the most tedious part. It was extremely technical. And I found someone hired him full time and he just took care of that. And then I used white label services like Kempe Campi to do my graphic design work for like 800 bucks a month.

They do graphics and videos, so I just outsource the most tedious parts of my job and I’m paying maybe three thousand a month. Keep in mind, I already have three to five clients at this point, so the cash flow is just fine. I’ve just delegated it to other people to make things scalable, kind of building as you go and outsourcing as you go. How did you find or do you have the right to go? Up work is good if you want, like the critical thinking side, if you’re looking for operational fulfillment, I would recommend I use extend your team Dotcom, Matt and his team over there.

They’ve got a good system for finding people in the Philippines that will work your hours. And they call it the third shift and and they’ll work full time with great, great skills for like 12 to 18 bucks an hour. Hey, guys, Megan here, how are your conversions doing? Are they maybe a little won’t won’t. I am here to help you with this exclusive free training, but two phrases you can use that just boost your conversions like Papau, but there’s a catch totally free.

But you have to get it in my Facebook group. That’s the only place it’s available. So to join Jim, if he’s joining my Facebook group is totally free. It’s that Facebook dot com slash group’s Megan Brame. Once you join, you’ll be able to get access to the training that shows you two stupidly simple phrases you can use to add on to your conversions in your marketing. It’s going to blow your mind, and I am so excited for you to check it out again.

Facebook dot com slash group slash Megan Brame. I’ll see you in there. So it started visiting. On and on about about this or not, this just triggers that you think, OK, I need to change. You know, there are two metrics. One is if you’re working more than 40 hours a week, outsource something or you’ll burn out. I know it’s fun that you can have short seasons to be working, long hours and that exists.

But if you’re four to five months in and you’re working six, seven days a week for over 10 hours a day, there’s an issue. And also if you find that your day is more reactive than proactive. There’s something wrong with their system. Those are the two indicators that something’s wrong with your business and needs to be adjusted even in the client services bit, if you’re more reactive than proactive. Then there’s something wrong with your systems. Now, there’s exceptions to that.

Like if you’re doing a call center where you’re only taking reactive calls. Right. So use that with a grain of salt. But if you have a business that goes out and gets leads, gets clients and you’re being reactive, there’s something wrong with the system. I like that I like that idea that it’s not really down the timeline as much as a. Burn out completely. Yeah, still in the story that you’re currently running. So I started, what, like you about it and.

What should people know about it was a business three is the advisory suite, and it’s a device which essentially is a marketing agency for financial advisors. And it came about because as I was coaching the my clients, I kept hearing over and over again that they’re using three to five different vendors and none of them talk to each other. And it’s really difficult to coordinate their efforts. And when I was working in the financial services company I co-founded previously. I did everything in house, and so I had already created a system that was scalable, and so what I did is I thought I pitched it to a couple of my clients.

I said, hey, if if you were able to bring it under one vendor who just handled it all, what would you do? And they’d say, honestly, we switched yesterday if we could if we had something like that. But just no one does that. And there’s one other company that does it. But they just didn’t want to pay the price point because it was just it was a very much a premium opportunity. And so I priced it out.

I created the scalability. I figured out, OK, if I took two clients on, I could do it all myself, but took five clients. I would require this. I just I just I mean, Excel sheet, real brief, rough numbers there. And I thought, OK, I can make money off this, I can scale it and I can slowly outsource or hire people on to where within four or five months I wouldn’t be doing anything other than just joining calls every now and then.

And so the fact that I just was working and asking questions, I was able to notice an issue with the industry. And whenever there’s an issue with the industry, that’s a problem that’s paying people will make will change what they’re doing based on pain, then I. Yeah, then I lost it and I have spent zero dollars on marketing as a marketing agency because it’s been fueled just by referrals, which has been a lot of fun. But there’s a bit of irony behind that.

That’s amazing. And I think that that’s my way into something that you are very that you emphasize a lot is marketing. And so I want to talk about how you figured out that was going to be your line in the sand. Do have principles as like a key selling point and what you think that means for entrepreneurs? Like what? What does it mean to you and to your clients? Yeah, so first things first, marketers, I feel, are at an inherent disadvantage because they have to be creative and figure out the solutions and then you pitch it and then they say no, then you compromise and do something else and you may say no.

And then after a couple of months of this merry go round, then they say, we’re going to fire you guys because you haven’t given us and results and you’re going. I’ve been trying, but you’re saying no to everything that we’re saying like that, that’s a very common situation for a lot of advisors or not advisers for a lot of marketers. And so right off the bat, I’ve been saying, OK, not only is this how are we going to function, but here is how we market.

We are not short term, like if a client and this is a very clear indicator, I need leads yesterday. What can you do for me? I say I’m not a fit. Here’s how I market here, the three principles, this principle of change, the principle position and the principle of of direction, and I can define those in a second, but I say, look, this is a flywheel effect marketing campaign. We’re not going to buy lists and spend them, send them a bunch of spam emails.

We are only going to market to people who have given you permission to speak to them. We’re going to get their permission by offering them free value and we’re going to collect data based on their interactions, on the emails and your website, all very ethical and the right way to do it. And then from there, when we’ve indicated that they might be interested in the services or buying a product, then we clearly principal principle direction to find what’s being offered, what’s expected and what the next steps are.

It’s a very principle based approach that takes a lot of time and effort to get it up and running. And if the client has a shiny object syndrome or the client needs leads yesterday, then it shuts it down immediately because. I don’t think your reputation is at stake, and if you take on clients, they’re going to complain about you, doesn’t it doesn’t just hurt your online reputation, but it hurts your confidence. You’re starting to fail over and over again because you’re not setting boundaries.

You’re essentially setting up yourself up for failure there.

So we talk about defining those principles. Yeah, the principle of change. I’ve said it earlier, but it’s essentially it suggests that unless the pain of change becomes less than the pain of continuing on, people won’t change. So stop marketing based on benefits. Stop marketing based on this perfectionism idea. No one believes it. I love how like more models are showing their their stretch stretchmarks and things like that, because that’s real and we want real. And then when you understand why people are going to change, it’s not fear manipulation.

It’s not perfectionism benefits. It’s if you have this issue here, some value we can add to your life if you want to. Great. If not, no problem. Very neutral, value based marketing. And then the principle commission suggests that unless someone gives you permission to speak to them, it doesn’t matter how loud you are. They’re not listening. I mean, think of how many times you’ve given someone unsolicited advice and it did nothing. You’re just wasting time, energy and probably annoying them a little bit, but they’re just too nice to say anything.

The same with marketing. The first step is to get Sloan’s permission. And the way to do that is by offering a value. And then the second step is exchange that value for an email or a name or a number or something. Don’t give things away for free. There’s always a cost and it’s at least an email. And then the third step is respectfully follow them and collect data based on what they want. Remember the principle of change they’re going to buy on what they want, not on the benefits you think they want.

And then the principal direction suggest that unless you clearly define what you’re offering, what’s expected and what the next steps are. There’s a high probability you’re going to lose them. Anxiety and ambiguity and still fear or high levels of testosterone, cortisol and norepinephrine. Those are chemicals of distrust. So if they’re going to sign up for service, but they don’t know what happens once they sign up, that will probably keep them from signing up. But if you say and when you sign up for this, what’s going to happen is that within twenty four hours, one of our people are going to contact you and find the good time to schedule.

Or you can use Câline schedule right away. And then we’re going to send you a little questionnaire. It’s one page long. Nothing’s intrusive, just some basic information we need to collect before our appointment. And then we will go this long. It will we’ll talk about these topics. You know, you’re clearly saying everything that’s going to happen. So they click that button. There’s no anxiety. Anxiety loses so many leads because the principal direction is not being effectively implemented.

So those are the those are the marketing principles. I mean, I’ve got a small ebook that I hand out through my Twitter of 30 Principles for life, but those are the marketing ones.

It’s funny you have said you like the models. They’re stretchmarks. And I was thinking abstractly. And then I’m like, oh, wait. I think he would be talking literally like this model. That’s like. I guess it works both ways, right? Oh, yeah, so can we talk more about that, you know, perfected business, perfected model?

Yeah, so 30 principles for everyday life, it’s deep and critical thinking this is not a light read at all, it’s literally a principle. And then what it suggests, it’s a universal truth that can be applied for your your relationship with yourself, your relationship with friends and family, your relationship professionally. But they’re all universally applicable and they guide you to live your most authentic life like who you really are. Too often we’re in a fear based position in a life that someone else wants us to live.

And it just doesn’t have to be that way. I mean, one of the examples is the principle of authenticity, which suggests that you only live your authentic self when you first live by principle. So not manipulation, not fear based, not addictions like you live by principle. And second, you live by your preferences. We all have different preferences, yet we compromise with those preferences are to appease people who probably don’t even care. But it’s it’s a very thought provoking 30 page principal book ebook of things that you could spend a year on each principal and still probably not have it be enough.

And you said that’s on your Twitter account and people get it. Yeah, manhandles Mike Catterick KDC. And if you ask for it, I was going to wait and release the ebook once I hit a certain amount of followers, but I think I might just release it now and just let people enjoy it. So if you, if you don’t, you can. I mean, you can see it on there. But if you don’t just do me and I can send you a PDF of it.

It’s free.

I’m excited for that. And I know that sounds cheesy, but this is actually really interesting, at least to me. The book and I have a.

Yeah, they’ll send it to you after this testing. So, Mike. Would you recommend people start coming to you for help and what kind of work do you want them to do before they come to you? And I guess in the agency business or in entrepreneurship or in what instance as a client, like what kind of work do you want your clients to do before they come to you and when are they ready to come to you?

I mean, for for financial advisements, they need to have at least two advisers there like that would be a big enough practice that they can afford my fee. And so and I have to have someone internally that’s completely dedicated to marketing operations and just the internal side and not seeing clients, because if you’re seeing clients, then you never get back to us. It’s like one one person. Shops just aren’t a fit. You’ve got to get to a certain threshold because we’re essentially your virtual CMO and marketing staff that you’re paying for to integrate with your company.

And so it’s you’ve already got the ball rolling and just want to perfect it. Or I say that jokingly, but improve it on a continuing basis. Well, and we talk about Twitter, but if people have questions about the book or killing or things like that, how do you recommend they get in touch with you?

Well, I mean, Twitter is the most powerful section is in the dumps. So just do me I mean, I really don’t mind responding if you want to follow me. I’m always tweeting about different observations that I have that you can you can get that little notification if you want to get them live. Twitter is more of a creative outlet of sharing what I’m learning. I really don’t care about how many followers I have or, you know, what’s what’s going on.

I just it’s a great resource for me to learn. But also I share what I’m learning with anyone that wants to follow me. It most certainly is not a business ploy at all. It’s a it’s a personal fund outlets, I should say, like Facebook and. But also, we talk about your podcast, too, because someone has been on it, and I’d like to talk about that. Yeah, Martin, with principles, you’ve been on it.

That was a lot of fun. And it’s another just fun project trying to to really antagonize an industry of manipulation with principles and only guests that are principle based understand you don’t manipulate things. You don’t try and force things are on it. They share their stories. It’s a lot of fun. I think it’s a lot of fun. I don’t know Megan.

But was it fun for you to be a lot of fun? Yeah, you can say no. You can say it was dreadful.

It was not dreadful whatsoever. But it is a very good podcast and like it’s a really good interviewers. I recommend picking it up or picking up. Subscribing to it. Copies worn off like I can’t I can’t be articulate anymore. It doesn’t look like. Well, before we go, is there anything else that we haven’t covered that you feel like people should know I.

I have this opinion that I don’t share any kind of conclusion in lieu of our our entrepreneurial thing, and that is it’s my opinion that everyone should be a solo partner at some point in their life. Doesn’t have your full time job, even if it’s just moonlighting something or a little side gig, when you run your own business, you’ll either understand that first day you make a thousand dollars, you’ll never work for someone else again, or you’ll appreciate the risk your employer takes and you’ll be less entitled to benefits and things like that because they’re basically taking the risk, taking the risk and employing you and trying to still make it work.

You will never fully understand how business runs unless you’ve been in charge of something like being a solo partner. And even if it’s like you decide that you’re going to write a little book on something and then try and peddle it on Twitter, for example, or whatever it is like, just see if you can make money off of it. And what it looks like to do that is one of the most Eye-Opening experiences that you could have as a professional in any capacity that you work in.

And it will either make you more grateful for your current employer or you’ll be your own boss for the rest of your life. And that’s also can be cool, not for everyone, but for some people it can be cool. That’s perfect. Thanks so much, Mike.

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