Season 4 Episode 19: How to Advertise in the Age of Apple Privacy Rules with Jennifer Denney

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With the new Apple privacy rules, find out best practices on how you can advertise with Jennifer Denney.

2:06 how small business can navigate on Apple privacy rules

10:53 recommendations on placing ads

14:31 types of marketing strategies that would work well

More Jennifer:

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Hey guys, Megan here. Thank you so much for joining me today. The talk that we’re going to have today is huge. I’m so thankful for my guests to come on today. I am here with Jennifer Denny. She has been in the digital marketing space for over 15 years. She founded Elevated Marketing Solutions in Twenty Seventeen, which is an Indianapolis based digital marketing agency that thrives on difficult situations and taking risks because the online marketing world is ever changing.

She understands that being in a constant state of improving yields, bigger rewards. Jennifer, thank you for being my saving grace today. I really appreciate you coming on. No problem.

I always appreciate being a guest.

So what I want to talk about is something that you are well versed in ranting about I here. So let’s talk about how small businesses should navigate this new world of Apple privacy laws. And for the record, I am pro privacy rules. I as someone who uses them, you know, I am very happy that they’re existing, but I’m also a marketer. So if you know this cluster fuck of where do I go, what do I do and how do I do this?

So, I mean, I’m just going to give you the we’ll just rant and talk and tell us how to how to navigate this world.

Well, I think it’s first important to understand what it effects and what it doesn’t affect. You know, it’s been brewing for for quite a while that the public has demanded privacy. I think we’ve all kind of gotten a little freaked out about the tracking that is available, even if we don’t completely understand what what we are tracking and not tracking. It definitely came to light when Facebook got put on the stage with with the government.

So, you know, so what has happened? Let’s just kind of start there in case you’ve been under a rock and haven’t really heard about it. And if you’re running a small business, you probably didn’t. But in the marketing world, it’s like this is all everybody’s talking about.

But basically when you update your iOS or Apple phone, so that’s at least 50 percent of the market and you go to open up any app, you’re going to be asked whether or not you would like to be tracked. Now, that’s how the rollout was supposed to go. But for some people, we’re already seeing that either they weren’t even given an option, they were just automatically opted out, making it so the default would be you would have to opt in instead of opting out.

And current data right now showing basically ninety seven percent people are opting out. And so, I mean, what does that mean? Well, it means that your data can’t be used by apps to basically remarket to you or to understand what your likes are. What are the items that you would rather see per say that information will no longer be available.

So that’s a big deal.

And it doesn’t affect, though, Google like on desktop computers, it doesn’t affect people and Android phones, so. It’s it’s really Apple taking a stab at privacy now I’m in camp. I don’t believe you, Apple, that that is your motive. Apple has quietly came out with a search engine in October. Apple has quietly updated their ad platform, but publicly made sure everybody knows that they are all about privacy. So I’m not believing that Apple is coming in to save the day.

I think that we’re going to be tracked no matter what. It’s the Internet or my mind goes to tell me more about the search engine coming out.

I hadn’t heard anything about that. Yeah, something they’ve been working on for a couple of years. But there was a article that was released. If you actually Google Apple search engine, you’ll see it was released in October. It just wasn’t made as public and probably for good reason knowing that this was coming out. At least that’s what I think.

So this is obviously a big issue. And I’m one of the people that it was default when I updated, I just it was already toggled off. So it’s interesting. The ninety six ninety seven percent of people are either OK with it or they’re just too lazy to turn it back on or the other way. But this is going to have a big effect on people who utilize things like Facebook and Instagram ads for a majority of their funnel building, right?

Yeah. How do we how do we start navigating? Like, are we all going back to banner ads on these pages or something?

Well, there’s definitely ways to still remarket you just don’t want to rely on people getting to the website. A strong strategy is to have video marketing as part of your ads. And we’re still able to market to people who watch, you know, ten, twenty five, one hundred percent of our videos. And so that still puts those people in your remarketing audiences for Facebook, Instagram type ads or any app. Persay, we use Facebook because they’re the ones that kind of came out.

But we’re talking about LinkedIn. We’re talking about Twitter. We’re talking about anybody that has an app has basically then been opted out. So let’s say I’m a small business owner, I haven’t started advertising yet. I got my pixels on my page and everything’s ready, but I haven’t actually taken that leap. How do you suggest I start looking at marketing in this space now?

So I think if if Facebook and Instagram becomes where you want to market at, which I still think you should, I don’t think this is a run and jump to other platforms. I do think you should be looking at other platforms. But I think you still have a majority of people who are on Facebook and Instagram. You should still be doing that. But the thing you have to pay attention to now is or you’re losing is the ability of attribution and knowing that somebody did actually complete a form, make a phone call, do your desired action on your website, you’re not going to see inside of your Facebook platform that that actually happened.

Another major thing that kind of came along with this is you have to basically within seven days of clicking through, take that desired action. And most people don’t do that with social media. It tends to be that middle of the funnel where you’re definitely influencing people, but it’s not the closer per say. And so you’re going to need to pay attention to the overall marketing. Are my results going up and down versus you know, I know this Facebook ad is the one that’s working.

Interesting, so you mentioned you should start looking at different platforms, but don’t don’t start freaking out yet. Do you see this having a ripple effect on something like YouTube ads or Pinterest ads, even YouTube ads?

No, and that’s primarily going to be because it’s you don’t go to the app really as often as people do on desktops or they’re just going through safari. And so there’s not going to be like this this large opt out like you’re going to see on Facebook, because primarily people just go through the app, they’re on a mobile device, and so they’re going to see that opt out. So, no, I don’t think so. And you said Twitter.

Yeah, definitely. Oh, Pinterest. You’re going to see an opt out there as well. You’re going to see some effect because it is an app and a lot of people are on apps as well.

So we’ve talked about the the NewBay in the ad space. What about someone who has let’s say they’re middle of the NewBay space? Like we’ve run a couple of ads. It is. It works a little bit. Maybe not that great. How do they start what are your recommendations for? How do they start deciding where to put that ad money?

And, you know, if they haven’t quite got the results yet, I would say don’t give up on Twitter or I mean, on Facebook and Instagram type ads. You probably just don’t have the right messaging there or you don’t have the right creative there. We’re all going to be in the same boat. So it’s it’s not like you’re going to be a disadvantage. You just possibly haven’t figured out your messaging yet and that’s why you’re not getting the results yet.

And then let’s talk about the people at the end, the people who have just been killing it on Instagram ads. How should they start reevaluating their ad strategy?

Well, don’t for how to exist, no matter what we do, no matter what new platform comes out or new, at the end of the day, we are still marketing. We’re still telling people about our products and services. It will adapt. Other platforms will come out. It will change. Right now, it’s in this kind of uncomfortable phase where we don’t really know what’s going to happen. And that’s OK. Just marketing.

Well, I guess that’s a good segue into this question, which is probably a loaded question. Do you think people should start paying more attention to organic marketing than advertising?

Well, they should have all of them, but we’re slightly biased. But yeah, I completely agree. Yeah. You know, I, I think there’s multiple forms that people I’m a big proponent. Let me just put it that way of multichannel marketing. I don’t think you should put all your eggs in one basket or another, hence where we’re seeing what happened, what’s happening right now. If if you were one hundred percent Facebook ads and that’s all you did as a marketer or small business, then you probably are panicking a little bit.

But if you had a solid kind of background or you were in different places, then it’s not as much freak out because you’ve got different places you can go. So. Hey, guys, Megan here, just a reminder, I have regular Q&A episodes coming out, so if you want your questions answered, head to Megan Brame Dotcom, ask a question on word and you’ll be able to get your questions posted. And if I feature it, you will get a copy, a free copy of my book, Day one and Practical Guide to Launching Your Business.

So again, head to Megan Brame Dotcom. Ask a question and if your question gets featured, I’m sending you a free copy of my book as a thank you.

Do you think that it is? A better strategy to dedicate more time and targeting marketing now, or you feel like it hasn’t changed like you should, just the the priority for organic marketing on multi-channel marketing hasn’t changed, or do you think it has?

I don’t think it’s changed. I think you just need to stay the course and be in multiple places. Were a big proponent of SEO here as well. So it’s I think you just need to stay the course. So can you talk about the types of marketing that you’ve seen have worked well for your clients, and what kind of strategies do you think are going to work? Well, coming up. So I still a big proponent of video marketing, so in it I just did a Facebook live on content marketing and I think that in itself needs to be a major part of your marketing in general, whether or not that’s video or that’s podcasting.

Definitely written, though, no matter if you put it on a video or a podcast, I think getting your message out.

And multiple forms and consistently answering people’s questions that they have is is going to serve you well, that’s completely I you’re talking about video marketing and SEO.

Do you think that those two can be utilized the same time or do you think that they’re separate fees altogether?

I think you need the strategy that we usually take is anything that we do in video becomes a written form to, you know, there people like to consume content in multiple ways. Some people want to watch. Some people want to listen. So that’s why you might have a podcast and then some people want to see it in a written form. And there’s nothing wrong with taking the same piece of content and reproducing it or written if you’ve already done a video format.

So you have to keep in mind that in SEO, Google owns YouTube. It’s the second largest Internet property out there. So you’re certainly not going to be hurting yourself by doing a written form and also doing a video.

So combining all of that with ads, when do you think a person is and will say person as company? When do you think they should start looking at advertising? Do you think that people start jumping on ads too quickly or too late?

You know, I think you have to look at how established you are as a business, do you have the baselines and in order, do you have consistent marketing that’s coming out? You know, if you’re a solo per Newar, then you might not necessarily need ads because you could get the amount of out of your own efforts of networking. That ads are not quite necessary yet to sustain the business. It’s it’s when you get to that growth spurt that you’re really taking on and you’ve got multiple employees and you’ve got revenue that you need to make sure you sustain that.

I think you can get to the point of ads is scalable versus when you’re running a solo producer. It’s not a scalable.

So how do you deal with a lot of subtle Pinners with your clients, or do you deal with more like business, like corporations, usually larger corporations, more established businesses?

Because we do run a lot of ads. So we tend to be in that space and then we have people that have marketing budgets. And when you’re smaller, your marketing budget is usually yourself, right?

Yeah. When you get to that next stage, that’s when you get to come see us.

Well, so let’s talk about that. When does somebody make that leap from doing it on their own to I need somebody else handling this. When do you recommend people start looking for a marketing company like yours?

When you start to see that. Maybe you’re not good at it, may be one reason if if marketing is not your strong suit and it doesn’t have to be to necessarily be a good entrepreneur, that’s when you might want to outsource it and have somebody else do it when it’s not a good use of your time, when there are other activities that you could be doing that would be more profitable than doing your own marketing. Be let’s just say you’re producing a podcast.

Could you edit the podcasts yourself? Probably. But is that the best use of your time? Somebody else be doing that? That is better at it and your time could be used focusing working on the business and not so much in business.

So so when someone is thinking they’re ready to bring on a marketing company, what kind of work do you recommend they do beforehand? Well, I think you have to think through what all type of marketing do you have right now?

It’s a it’s a tough question and I think people are at different stages. Sure. Sometimes they figure it out, their messaging, and sometimes they haven’t. And that’s why they need a marketing agency. Sometimes you’ve you’ve figured out what your logo is going to be and sometimes you haven’t. So that’s why you need a marketing agency. So it can vary a lot, in my opinion.

So what kind of expectations should somebody have when they hire a marketing agency?

I, I definitely think you need to understand that marketing is an amplification brand. And so it’s something that’s always needed. And you shouldn’t expect when you hire marketing to see that you’re just going to instantly have results. That will be awesome.

Yeah, it’s not like turning on the lights, so it works. So give yourself some congratulations. You’re hiring a marketing agency, but give yourself some breathing room that you don’t have these expectations of instantaneous results.

So, yeah, completely. So when I was dealing with clients like that, it was always something that I tried to say. This is the only phrase I can think of in my head.

But curb their enthusiasm about how an actual organic marketing strategy works and how advertising works. But I think that a lot of people, like you said, we’ll just jump into either marketing on their own or hiring someone and thinking like it is like a light switch like this. You’re going to I’m going to get thirty six thousand dollars every day. It’s going to be amazing. And then it’s crickets. They feel like it’s failed. So how do you kind of temper your clients expectations if they don’t?

If they’re not well versed in it, because I’m sure that you do have clients that we know you do it, we don’t care, but what are the what about the people that are like, this is my baby? How do I know what’s happening?

I think the important part of that is as a marketing agency is to recognize that it is down and to have a plan. If if you go to your clients and you don’t already have a plan of how you’re going to come back from it and you’re expecting your clients to kind of tell you, then that’s probably not a good place to be.

I would say, you know, there’s just like with business in general, you have to expect that there’s ups and downs, there’s things in the market that are uncontrollable and there are things that are controllable and you just have to have a plan to overcome it.

So can we get into your plan? Like, how did you decide that elevated marketing solutions is the way that you want it to go?

Well, you know, I now that I own my own business for the last four years, I definitely know that I’m where I should be. But for a long time, I was leading the pack at several organizations and I just didn’t always feel right that it wasn’t mine. I was I was building somebody else’s dream. And it took a lot of encouragement from good friends of mine that were like, Jennifer, I don’t understand. You’re already doing it.

You just don’t understand that you’re doing it. And so it was just one step in front of the other. And I did do a lot of work on the side for almost a year and a half before I actually went out on my own. So it was overcoming those fears and just putting one step on that. I’d be like, OK, well, here’s today’s problem and here’s how we’re going to solve today and then before, you know, build this company and you’re like, OK, well, what’s next?

Well, can we talk about the moment, if you can remember it, that you decided that this is me full time, this is what I want to do. I don’t want to work for other people like I this is my this is the right path at that moment really came.

You know, it’s funny. I was I was getting ready to kind of go out on my own. And my lawyer at the time had had kind of decided that they they wanted me to go part time. And so literally it coincided where I was like, OK, well, yeah, you can hire elevated marketing solutions. And it was got a surprise on both ends. Was like or did that come from like what I’ve been working on it for last year and a half and it all just kind of works out at the same time.

It’s crazy like that. Like I said, I’m a planner, so I know what the next step is going to be, even if I don’t know what I’m planning for.

Well, so what are you planning for?

What’s coming up for you right now? We have a new hire that’s going to start tomorrow. So we’re going to get from a team of three to a team of four. So we’re planning how we’re going to kind of shift here and bring somebody else into the team and some responsibilities. We’ll kind of switch around. And so that will be exciting for sure to have that extra help. That’s awesome. What kind of advice would you give somebody who thinks they want to start a marketing agency?

Well, I would probably just go to overall, entrepreneurs don’t give up. There’s going to be good days. There’s going to be bad days. Believe in yourself first before you know, you want you probably desperately want other people to believe in you. And that’s when you think you’re going to be legitimate. And the reality is, is you’re legitimate when you believe in yourself. And so no matter how hard it gets, like if you believe in yourself, then you can do it regardless if nobody else thinks you can’t.

And that’s what matters. Oh, I love that.

That’s a very that’s a very quotable quote. I’m a big person and I think you need motivation daily.

I keep books around that’s like encourage every day because it’s it’s tough as an entrepreneur and you think you’re going to get out there and it’s just going to be like super easy because you sit on the other side of the fence.

They’re so successful, but they go through a lot of challenges, too. You know, they’re just maybe not as vocal about it. I don’t care. There’s ups and downs.

Well, so you picked up a book there, but do what other books you recommend for entrepreneurs. Which ones do you love?

You know, I think you should just be part of a book club where there’s constantly books being produced. If I swung around the camera, you would see close to 40 leadership books probably over you. And you have to constantly be looking for inspiration. And I think books is or podcast or just listening to other people’s ideas is a great place to do that. Obviously assignments and starting with why is a great book and understanding what motivates you on on a daily basis.

And it might not be money, it might be just getting to be able to do your own thing. Very cool.

I’ve actually I haven’t read that really long. Time to reread it and I will. That’ll be my homework.

Jennifer, where can people get a hold of you? I know you’re on clubhouse now, so tell me about where how people can get in touch with you and hear about more about you.

Well, of course, I’m probably on every social media channel out there Elevate Marketing Solutions.

That’s our website. So that’s a great place to start. We do do a series once a month. The elevated marketing chat is actually this coming Thursday, but I’m sure this will come out later. So the third Thursday of the or the second Thursday of the month, I should say. But yeah, just if you Google Jennifer Denning, I’m sure you’ll find me.

Well, before we go, is there anything else that we’ve uncovered that you want people to know about? I don’t think so and stay positive. Well, thank you, Jennifer. Really appreciate it. So you take care.

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