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Jeroen Corthout

Season 4 Episode 6: Stop Sucking at CRMs with Jeroen Corthout from Salesflare

Season 4 Ep 6: Stop Sucking at CRMs with Jeroen Corthout from Salesflare

Show Notes:

Customer relationship management systems (CRM) are essential in business especially if your venture is growing. But is it really worth paying for it?

How do you know if it is the right fit for you? How it can benefit your business?

Listen as Jeroen Corthout from Salesflare gives insights on how CRM can help you manage and build good customer relationship process making it seamless for your business.

2:49 Jeroen’s background with Salesflare

23:08 CRM recommendations

27:09 missteps people are making in their sales process

More Jeroen:



Hey guys, Megan here. Thank you so much for joining me today. I think you’re really going to like this talk. I am here with Jeroen Corthout, who is the co-founder and CEO of SalesFlare an intelligent CRM built for small businesses selling business to business, mostly popular with agencies and fast growing startup companies. Sales itself was founded When You’re On and his co-founder LEVIEN. What, if anything, is saying his name right? I’m really sorry. Le’Veon wanted to follow up with leads for their software company in an easier way.

They didn’t like to keep track of their leads manually and built sales flair, which pulls out customer data together automatically and then actively helps you follow up. It’s now the most popular CRM on product and top rated on review platforms like GTA for its ease of use and automation features. And Uran is here today to talk to you about making a better sales journey. And I am so excited to have you here. This because he is super intelligent and let’s take it away.

First of all, there are so many. Yeah, and it’s very hard for people to know where to to start looking. Many people just type CRM into Google and then and then read some lists and try to figure it out. Right. And yeah. If you don’t pick the right one for your business, that’s that. As a lot of impact, because a CRM can mean a lot if it works for you and in most cases it doesn’t, unfortunately.

Well, let’s start with how did you get to sales flair? So let’s start with your background and how what got you into deciding? Like, I’m not finding the right solution out there. I’ve got to build it myself. Yeah.

Um, where do I begin? I’ll start with my entrepreneurship journey kind of starts. I always liked building stuff from when I was a kid, but it was camps in the woods or building a catapult or or drawing something and drawing class, you know, all those kind of things. It’s like you’re creating stuff. And I was like that. But it was when I was 15, 16 that’s creating and doing that for other people and then getting stuff in return when that really started.

And that’s when I discovered building websites. I mean, I was building websites and there was 14 or sort of mostly geocaches kind of thing where you would build these websites and entities.

Yes, they are they have they been archived or have we all gotten a pass? And they’re all some history.

I am supposing that there’s still some stuff. I don’t know. What are the pages? We made a big deal or still left, but I suppose for posterity, there’s still some stuff to look at.

Terrifying. Yes, I really like that’s me and my friends, I would say we have we had that science and we had this little chat group and the mailing list and whatever. But at some point I discovered the joys of Flash and it has just been completely killed off. But back then, it was all the rage. We’re talking about 20 years ago now. So and I started building flash websites. Most people didn’t have a website and I built some beautiful ones.

I think I started with my my own website and then one from my mom. You know, it stopped rolling. And that’s when I felt that this is something that I wanted to do more. And I actually saw my future there. So when I went to the open day for engineering, I went for computer engineering all to look at it. I didn’t decide for computer engineering because when I went there, it all seemed too nerdy. So I figured I’m going to do something else.

Like everything they were displaying to me seem like I don’t know why they’re displaying this to me, but it’s not really useful. I ended up doing actually like electronical engineering and I had a business as a minor, which because I always knew that I wanted to start something. So that made more sense to me than adding mechanical engineering as a minor. And then in my macerated biomedical engineering, just because I thought I could make a bigger impact on the world with that.

It’s things like energy or Delcourt or whatever. Um. I ended up. Applying for jobs for a while as an engineer, I didn’t have the courage to start my own business. I was I was doing stuff on the site, like selling cell phones and all that secondhand, but. I felt like I need a real job, but I when I was applying for real jobs, the engineering jobs never really appealed to me because it seemed like I was going to sort of build stuff that I would not be in touch with customers, which was, for me, the the fun of it.

Like, you build stuff, you show it to people, say, oh, you can make it more like this.

And during my application interviews, through my interviews, I was at a 3D printing company for health care at some point, and it was for a job application engineer, which was sort of a little bit with customers, but still am.

And they said, oh, more with customers, maybe you want to be a project manager. And then I did a test that same day for project management and they decided I was not a good project manager, so I didn’t get that job. So that same evening, because I was so frustrated, actually, I had a friend who was doing business school that year and I thought, I’m going to do that as well. It’s it’s probably the best way for me to get into business.

And I got the credit card of another friend because my parents credit card was not an option and paid for the test. And I got in and actually did a year of business school. And it was a great investment because I switched completely from engineering straight into marketing and I started in a marketing position in a big pharma company called Baxter. And why I did that was, again, because I thought I needed some experience first. And I thought, what better place is there than sort of managing your own products?

I had, I think.

Two or three vaccines that I was managing, and then I was helping a few more senior product managers with their products. I thought you have a product. You put it in the market and get a lot of experience, that’s not really what it ended up to be. It was much more limited than I envisioned. It was not at all like running my own company was more like running a tiny aspect of something. So I got really, really bored with that after I think six months or so.

And after eight months, I found another job and after 10 months I left. The new job was was actually funny. I was thinking about starting my own company finally, and it was going to be a Web agency, marketing agency for pharma, because I spent some time in Baxter and I figured that I was the only person who knew something about websites. And now that I sort of understood pharma and pharma marketing, I would be the right person, right to build websites for them.

But one evening, I had dinner with someone from from the neighborhood where my parents lived and it seemed that he actually had a company that that did that, but more like with strategy and market research and building websites and big campaigns. So he hired me and he said, I can teach you everything if at six months you said, I want to go and then you go. And I did that for four years. And it was awesome in the sense that I was an account manager.

I could sell projects to pharma companies. I could be responsible for the delivery of some stuff. I would do myself some some stuff I would I would give to colleagues to do so. It was a very nice experience to really get started in entrepreneurship because I could sort of experiments without without. Really failing or anything, you know, right now, I could understand why people wanted to make a proposal, a little quote, send it to them, they would approve, we would discuss, negotiate, then I would make a plan and make sure it’s delivered, communicate with everyone.

It was really great experience before starting a company, and I did that for four years. Slowly, I got the sort of them they need again to start a company, and at some point I went part time in the consultancy to focus on some startup idea that I have, which ended up to be a dumb idea that had no business model behind it or anything.

Then I tried something else, something else. And the one thing rolled into the theater and delay until I started sales were actually because we were working on another software company and we needed a good CRM. And I have been using Salesforce in the past and I knew that wasn’t that’s like the big giant gorilla in the market. They have about 20 percent market share and we use that internally in the marketing consultancy. And we would also deploy it at customers within the projects we were doing.

But I never really understood how it helped me. It did help our organization and our SEO he could pull all kinds of nice reports and all, but it never helped me sell. So what it ended up to do to to be is this management reporting tool in which I would put the necessary data for the management reporting, but it never was that sales system that everybody said it was going to be, which I thought weird. And so when we were working on that software company, we had all these leads to follow up.

I knew that Salesforce wasn’t going to help. I looked at the market, looked at what other stuff was there. There were a lot of things that were much more practical and much more intended as a sales follow up tool than Salesforce. But unfortunately, none of these tools worked for us either because. We basically always fill in the tools, so we started using them and at some point we lacked a little discipline and we didn’t fill this out and that out and we didn’t add that new person that we mattered in that their phone number and then say that we had a meeting with them and and at some point it all went downhill, because as soon as you start missing this kind of stuff, it just gets worse and worse and worse.

Because in every cycle of the downward spiral, you when when when you don’t fill it out, then the system becomes less useful because it’s not completely up to date. And then you feel less like figure it out. And then at some point you stop using. And that was an issue because that meant that we couldn’t properly follow up, all the people were in touch with, we were contacting people twice. We got misunderstandings and anything that I would call.

Or we would forget to follow up someone or and at some point my co-founder and I were working on that, we figured that actually all of the things that we were inputting into these systems, they were already in other places, like we were emailing them in our mailbox. I mean, the email is there, but also the name and the email of the person is in the email header. When the email is back, there’s an email signature witnessed.

We could copy and paste that into the CRM. We felt like, oh, software could do that. Why doesn’t it? It could actually also create the people that we were in touch with so that we not like otherwise. Each time you meet someone at a company to have the reflex, oh, this person is not an CRM yet. Let me add in. CRM can actually do that for you and suggest like, hey, you want to add this person to make sure the same with meetings in the calendar, like you have a meeting and then you go into your meeting, phone calls, stuff and company databases can be pulled.

An email tracking and web tracking can be integrated.

A whole lot of things. And all kinds of different systems not really connected and actually should be in the CRM so that they’re all of the things you would normally track manually are input automatically and you have this one view there together that then helps you always know what your life discussed when you need to follow up again and all those kind of things, like give you an overview of everything without having to put too much work into it. And that’s now seven years ago almost, we started building sales where it took us a while to build its first customer.

But now we’re here and we have over 2000 companies using our software right now actively. And I’m still building. That’s fantastic.

So when did you decide that, OK, sales flair is enough of a. Sure thing, if you want to call it that, for me to just I’m going full time with this like this, you you have done some kind of entrepreneurial stuff in the past, but you look like you kind of kept it safe and you didn’t really dip your toes then. So what made you think, OK, salesclerk, that this is what I’m going to go full time to do?

Yeah, we had sort of the idea in April, May, and indeed we didn’t feel like going full time immediately not start a company like an entity, you know, you can try stuff and it can fail. And then you’re stuck with a company entity there now, this kind of stuff. So in the period between May and September, working part time on it and Dylan, in September, we actually got into a startup accelerator. And they required us to go full time and we got twenty five kilos and we’re like, OK, we can make the leap, it was way too early if you ask me.

It was very risky, but we did and we managed and we got to twenty five with which we also thought, oh, we can hire a person.

So the idea and then what. We found money elsewhere.

We got another 50 and another 50 T and now we had the money to. Because if you start a software business, especially software as a service, I mean first there’s a lot of work before you can even start earning money, especially if you sell to small and medium sized businesses like we do. If you do enterprise software, then maybe charge half before you start developing or something. But it’s not the case for us. It’s subscriptions and it’s all small subscriptions.

And I want to go back to something you glossed over and I have a lot of questions about it. You built catapults when you were a kid. Yeah, I don’t know why, but I was I was very interested in the counterpose. Did they work? Sometimes a never, never really grids, I never I never took a pro fair enough or we’re not talking the catapult entrepreneurism.

So hey guys, Megan here are your conversions doing. Are they maybe a little won’t won’t. I am here to help you with this exclusive free training. But two phrases you can use that just boost your conversions like Papau. But there’s a catch. It’s really free, but you have to get it in my Facebook group. That’s the only place it’s available. So to join Jim, if he’s joining my Facebook group is totally free. It’s at Facebook dot com slash groups, slash Megan Brame.

Once you join, you’ll be able to get access to the training that shows you two stupidly simple phrases you can use to add on to your conversions in your marketing. It’s going to blow your mind. And I am so excited for you to check it out again. Facebook dot com slash group slash Megan Brame. I’ll see you in there. So I’m an entrepreneur. I want to. Start really focusing on sales this year. I don’t have a CRM, I have maybe a Google sheet at that.

How do you recommend I get started? Moving from a Google sheet, why do I need to go from a spreadsheet to a CRM and how do I do that? Yeah, a few reasons. A Google sheet is nice, nicer than just an Excel sheet in the sense that you can share it within the team, but it’s still it’s very limited in the sense that you have only let’s you what? We have a sales funnel template actually on our site that is a bit more advanced than the usual Google sheet, but it’s all like one roll company, contact opportunity and then some stuff which is already not how reality is.

Usually you have multiple contacts at the same company, so you can already improve that by having different sheets with companies and contacts and all. But then it also becomes more difficult to navigate. Maybe point number one. Point number two is it’s it’s it’s a very manual thing. It can easily become a mess unless you also do fancy stuff there to like create lists with drop downs. And I don’t know what that’s it’s possible, but it can easily become a mess where this thing is written like this there and that like that there.

And there’s no uniformity. But the most important thing is that the sheet is not connected to your communication. So what it does is maybe track a bit of contact info and stage, maybe some more info on the notes, but it can never really properly represent a timeline of communication with the customer. That’s something you need to maintain somewhere else and in a very disconnected, disorganized way. So if you are managing, let’s say. Then leads at a time, a sheet can work, but if you go anywhere beyond that, it can start becoming very, very messy.

We have quite some customers coming from sheets.

That’s where at first it was the founder of SEO and they managed with the sheets, but then they hire for a salesperson and then then it’s just not manageable anymore. Also, when you start working as a team, it’s good to have a bit of insight into what the other people are communicating. So if you have that in one place, that’s an the plus it can. And also based on the things you fill out, also generate dashboard’s. There’s there’s there’s much more to it, of course, but those are really the the basics.

Makes sense and also the. To your point of, you know, you can kind of get by with a Google sheet, but it’s only going to work for so long until, like you really do become successful and these Google sheets just aren’t working anymore.

So when I’m looking for a CRM, what is it that I should be looking for? Do you recommend different types of CRM through different types of businesses, or how do you recommend people start looking into what they need and not going crazy and getting overwhelmed with, like, Salesforce or something like that?

Hi, Salesforce. I would personally never recommend Salesforce to a small business or even medium sized. Like if they don’t have two hundred employees or so, I would never go for Salesforce. Salesforce is great. If you need something that your company wants to have full control over, they basically want to build their own software almost.

Well, they will employ consultants which are quite expensive to build at, but otherwise it’s much better to get something that is not an enterprise CRM, but it is a small business CRM. And then it depends a bit on your, let’s say, sales model if you are.

More sales driven company like where there is quite some follow up needed in the sales process. It’s not just a transactional sell, then it makes sense to focus on on a sales CRM if you are. That’s often the case in B2B businesses, in some B2C businesses like real estate. It’s better to get something very specific in real estate. First of all, yeah, many, many, many CRM, you’ll find companies in context and not really a real estate service.

So it’s more of a bunch of contacts and you want to stay in touch with them on a regular basis and you want to know exactly like that. These are the things they’re looking for. Plus, you have sort of the people that buy the houses. You have the people that sell the houses, the owners, which are the ones you actually work for. Then you have the house. And so the data is organized. A totally different of real estate.

Really like to look at a real estate CRM, B2B, as is, is another BIRKERTS that’s. A B2B sales, this is in most cases the best choice when it went in B2C model. Very often it’s more about. Emailing and there’s there’s good stuff for that, like and like active campaign. That’s that’s much more adapted to sort of the very large volume sort of selling.

Um, and then I’m forgetting something. Those are the main things we see back, salesclerks is a B2B sales CRM, so it’s it’s been almost only have B2B companies on the software, small and medium sized, mainly agencies like marketing agencies, consultancies, software development agencies. And then, on the other hand, a lot of fast growing startups, like you said in the intro of which quite some are SaaS companies as well as those companies. So you have a ton of different companies on sales flair, and I’m sure that you have seen a number of.

Let’s say errors that people make in their sales process. So can you recommend, like what what major missteps do you see people making in a sales process that you would recommend, like don’t do this? This is not helpful in a sales process.

The main thing, not having one, but the error. But then when you build one things to think about. So a sales process is the process you follow to sell something that ideally, first of all, it follows the buying process is not something you want to impose on the customer. It’s more like the customer likes to do it like this. This is how it feels natural. So you try to adapt to that. Then when you sort of map that out, how it would be best for the customer to go through this, then you need to divide us into steps, very clear steps that you take together that are.

So clear to you that you can also make it clear to the customer, like, OK, we’re having this meeting now, you’re interested, I can give you a demo still, I can do this or that for you. You can have whatever. And then you’re like, OK, we can make a proposal proposal.

And if you need to, to have it in such a way that it’s for instance, the typical line is like this. This is a lead you can’t act on. They show interests, so you do have a meeting with them, you qualify them during that meeting, the other qualified, they they consider buying. You make a proposal and then you win. And if you get that into very, very clear steps again, then you can take the buyer on the journey.

If it’s if the steps are very vague, you will never be able to convey it to the buyers, will be very hard to to sell. And then actually when when you’ve done that. It’s all about in every step along the way to just get the buyer to the next step or decide that they will not buy, and that’s very important as well. If you know that they’re not going to buy, please remove them from your pipeline. Stop spending your time on them.

Stop hoping that they will buy it. It’s much, much better to spend your time with people who will buy than to spend it with people who are not going to buy SEO qualification, as they call it. Sales is extremely important.

So if you don’t. At any step along the way, disqualify if you’re disqualified and then just move them to lost or what we often do as well as like it’s not going to by now, but maybe later, I often make this kind of stage in the pipelines called fridge and fridge. And then sometimes I look through the fridge like, who do we need to take out here? I love Frige that’s putting them completely on ice that just kind of like we’ll be back.

So you’ve you’ve got this pipeline figured out and it’s going really well, but you are getting super overwhelmed because doing all this stuff manually is there. How do you recommend people start looking into the next phase of it, like automating it without sounding like robots? Yeah, there’s there’s quite some little stuff you can do, I think the main approach you should take there is do it manually first and then at any point along the way, when you start feeling like it’s a routine, but it starts sort of starts weighing on you think about how can I automate this?

And it’s it’s often in in little things. And also things to do is also remove friction. So, for instance, the biggest cabin still often is having a calendar link just to create one. You don’t have to keep spending your time sending emails back and forth until you find the time for a meeting and just send a link. And I usually say something like, you can you can find a good time to talk of the and then the link.

I send that to anyone. And if you think the person is too important, then they will be offended by that. You say something like or send me your link in our book in yours or something and never. And. The the the biggest mistake people make is not doing things manually first. And this involves things like like introspection, like LinkedIn prospection or email prospection or so they just send a mass email at scale without trying it with some people first.

I would always say do it, do it in a very non scalable way. For first, like every personal email research team will write a nice email, personalized sends to the next one same thing and empathize with them. Do it again after you have done this dozens of times. I don’t know exactly. Let’s say 30, 40 times or so. You start getting a feeling for how your email usually looks based on the empathy you apply in all these times.

And you might also already have a feel for this. When I read it like this, it has more of a chance to get a good reply. You can iterate it a bit so you find some approach that that works and that is much more human than you would get when you automated completely from the beginning, because when you when you automate from the beginning. You know, there’s this huge disconnect between you and the people who are going to receive it because you’re basically sending it out to numbers which you don’t know who they are, you’ll just send it to a mass of people.

And it’s very hard for you to build empathy with that mass of people. That’s why I recommend doing it one by one, first with people and then automating. And then you can use some email sequence tools. So we have one, for instance, elsewhere as well. It’s very handy. You don’t need to do all that manual work, but it’s good to do the manual work first because then your automation will will be much more successful. So you’ll be much more successful in the long run.

And then when you just blast from the from the very beginning, do you think people start the automation first out of, like an insecurity thing, or do you think it’s.

I guess not knowing any better. Why do you think people just jump right to the automation part of it? Um, laziness?

Yeah, well, you you can automatically think, like, why why should I do it manually? I mean, I have this thing I can I can I can do it an automated way. So it’s the path of least resistance that’s just automated phone so that everyone doesn’t really work. Everybody is an lloyd-smith. You know what I mean, most of the e-mails we get the link to the messages, you wonder like how does this person think that this is how humans talk?

Do they care?

So I have my animation set up. I’ve done this a couple of times and starting to see a conversion and setting of a pattern. How do you recommend people start scaling that then? The better of you, when you have in mind how you want to automate it, then you just start looking for the right tool. That’s what I always do when I am working on something. And at some point I’m like. I mean, it’s working, but it’s it’s it’s really a bit too much work.

How how can I what is important here, like what are the basic things that it should do? And then you just search on the Internet and you’ll find something. I mean, there’s this software for anything. And that’s that’s it, and then find something that you actually enjoy working with, meets your needs and ideally connects to the other things you use, a good place to search often is the best tool out there to, as far as I’m concerned, connect different software tools, disappear zappy ICR dot com, and they connect with 3000 almost different apps.

Now, I think maybe you had three thousand. I’m not sure. But if you look on this app, your site, uh, or or you find something. And what I often do is Google is happier in the name of the product and if they don’t have an integration in like the next one.

Yeah, absolutely. So when do you recommend people start looking at sales flair in their business? Do you think that. How do you want customers to qualify themselves before they come to you? Yeah, they need to be selling B2B business to business. Otherwise, it works for BTC, but it’s it’s we made it. Consciously for me to be, because that just makes it easier have contacts linked to companies and then you sell stuff to these companies with their opportunities, there’s no context linking opportunities or, you know, all kinds of different, like a lot of serum’s allow a lot of possibilities.

But that also makes it more complex. And we like to keep that complexity. So B2B businesses small and medium sized, and you’re actively selling and you’re not actively selling to five to 10 companies. It goes beyond that. Like there are some agencies that I don’t sell only to Coca-Cola and in some taco company or something, and they make a lot of money. Then you probably don’t need a sales year. But when you’re when your projects are below a few hundred or so, you’ll probably have a series of customers.

And if you’re actively maintaining a pipeline of customers, then it makes sense to get a sales year.

Do you think that it’s also good for me to see? Exactly. I’m thinking like consultants or coaches or even bloggers who have relationships with sponsored companies to do collaborations. Do you think that sales flair or just any kind of CRM, do you think that that is something that should be utilized to for partnerships?

Definitely. Yeah, we actually use sales were very actively ourselves for partnerships. Um, that’s we we can use it to reach out at scale to different potential partners, to all the follow up, you know, like when we’re in touch about what’s moving to the pipeline all the same, like you have a sales process, you can apply the same things to partnerships and it works very well.

What about maintaining the relationship in a CRM? How do you recommend people do that? So say like they’re they’ve already had the transaction with the company or whomever. What kind of what success have you seen through your customers that have done? What kind of tips do you recommend for that?

Yeah, you mean like customer support wise or just like continuing the relationships that they continue to buy from you if you have new product offerings or whatever?

Yeah, OK, well, I it’s one thing we reference is doing the software as we when you depending on the stage, you can set a time after which you want to get in touch with someone again. Um, so it might be just five days or something when you’re when they’re qualified or or when their proposal made or the state’s proposal made or so. But then when no one you could put that to, to a longer time, you could say I want to hear them every two or three months or something.

And then in sales, I will remind you to take this company you haven’t talked to since then. Maybe it’s it’s a it’s a good one to follow up when you have new product offerings. This is is a really great time to get in touch with people. We have this this is. The email blast, basically, that we send out every time we have that, you can also do that from cell phone. So we have a general one because it’s like it’s 20, 30 thousand people on the list.

So that’s that’s more like when an email newsletter sort of style tool that we send out. But then next it adds, I often also when I know it’s really great for a certain company, we can also start following up sales wise. And then I use our builtin email sequences to say, hey, we have this now us for this. You want to check it out and you want to maybe get on a call and to show you and then you can send another email like that is I mean, not not that you see that that’s the worst of email.

But if you’re still interested to see this, we just want whatever you need to have some kind of new message to put in there.

Well, enough people have more questions because of the time.

So where how can people get a hold of you and find out more about sales flair or if they have, like, sales questions? To find out more about salesmen where you can just have the sales dot com and it’s fler with A.R.T. and you can read about the software, the sides, you can try it for anywhere between seven and 30 days. You actually get more days on the trial as you set it up, because we found that people who set it up properly are much more likely to be successful.

So we really want to motivate you since about a week or two ago, we also added a get a demo button on the side.

So if you want a demo, like a demo, like a call, and we can we can have that as well. Or if you have just a general question, there’s a chat icon on the site like. And if you want to get in touch with me directly, you can do that on LinkedIn. There is only one person with my exact name, so it’s not too difficult. But please include a personal message with your connection because otherwise you just disappear in a sea of spam.

Only then I have no idea why you’re connect with these.

Well, before we go, is there anything that we didn’t cover that you want people to know about? Not really. All right, awesome. Thank you so much.

This has been really informational and really cool. Thank you. And this was fun. Hey, guys, one more thing before you go, could you do me a favor and leave a review of this episode? It would help me out so much and get the word out to other people. If you could just drop a review. I would really appreciate it. On the next episode, I’ve got to a point where, you know, leverage was enough, that it made me realize that actually no need to jump out and and do the next thing.

When did the Missinglettr start festering in your head, when did you start thinking, like, let me let me look at this and see what’s going on?

So that was whilst at the agency? It was it was a side project. We we we set up and ran alongside it and fortunately started building a bit of traction, not enough that one could confidently jump ship. It helped that I was able to find an acquirer for the agency, but it was enough of a of a of a suggestion that there was something there.

But it gave us the confidence to jump ship. But now the idea was very, very simply from seeing, you know, working with our clients every single day. We were building high end sort of Web applications, but invariably they would include some sort of blog. And so although we weren’t writing the content, we were we were creating the platform that they could, you know, add their blog posts to and showcase them to the world and all that sort of thing.

And one thing I noticed was that pretty much all of our customers were really, really good at coming up with a bit of a content strategy. They knew that they had to publish a blog post once a month or once a week or whatever it was. They knew the topics that they wanted to talk about. They thought about SEO and the right phrases to use all that sort of stuff.

But almost none of them knew what to do or even knew that they had to do was do something once they published the blog post so they would click, publish and WordPress or in our case, in our platform. And then that was it. They were just like Wayne’s World. They would expect them to of turn up. And it just sort of struck me that, again, coming back to that hatred for inefficiency that I described at the beginning, it just felt horribly inefficient, because for those that did realize that they have to do something to promote those blog posts, they were basically creating horrible word Excel spreadsheets and recreating the content, rehashing it, kind of looking at their blog post and going, well, I need to turn that into a hundred and forty characters as it was back then.

Tweets or Facebook posts or whatever it was. And they were just, you know, you could hear the.

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